[zeuux-universe] 崩溃！刚看到了一个老外对中国网站的评价“Why do most Chinese sites look like crap?”

[Julien GONG Min (Gmail)]

用CT的标准去衡量Yahoo，信息量还是不够丰富。我觉得这个问题并不是很重要，反正我自己都不看新浪的首页-。-
需要的人会看的，而且这种人在中国很多很多……

On 5/27/08, Xia Qingran <qingran在zeuux.org> wrote:
>
> 原文见：
>
> http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/
>
>
> Why do most Chinese sites look like crap? May 26th, 2008 · 13 Comments<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comments>
>
> [I wish this post contained all sorts of "a-ha!" insights. Instead, I hope
> it simply frames some questions that I find interesting].
>
> Whenever I show Chinese websites to American friends who don't speak
> Chinese, the friends universally have the same reaction — "Wow! That site
> sure is crappy-looking! Guess those guys haven't learned how to design a
> good website yet, huh?"
>
> I made the same mistake myself when I moved to Beijing 4 years ago, fresh
> from the "cutting-edge" of web design in the Bay Area. "Surely," I thought,
> "my superior design sensibility is a key ingredient to why I'll be
> successful building B2C websites in China!"
>
> Boy, was I wrong.
>
> In case you don't know what I'm talking about, look at the home page of
> China's most-popular website (all of these screen shots are a bit old, but
> things haven't changed much). You can click on the image to see it in
> detail.
>
>
> <http://www.melcherruwart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/sina-home-page.jpg>
>
> Above is the home page of Sina.com, showing just what you can see "above
> the fold" (in other words, without scrolling down).
>
> Now, here's the above-the-fold home page of my favorite American news site:
>
>
> <http://www.melcherruwart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/ny-times-home-page.jpg>
>
> For those of you who might argue that Sina is a "portal" and not really a
> news site, here's the above-the-fold home page of most popular portal site
> in the US:
>
>
> <http://www.melcherruwart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/yahoo-home-page.jpg>
>
> In addition to preferring higher information density per square inch,
> Chinese readers also seem to prefer higher density per page view. Once
> again, here's the home page of Yahoo, showing the entire home page.
>
>
> <http://www.melcherruwart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/yahoo-home-page-long.jpg>
>
> Here's the full-length home page of Sina.com, from the same day:
>
>
> <http://www.melcherruwart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/sina-home-page-long.jpg>
>
> In case my point isn't clear, below I've placed the full-length web pages
> of the three sites side-by-side, to scale:
>
>
> <http://www.melcherruwart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/yahoo-vs-nyt-vs-sina.jpg>
>
> Most Americans are by now nodding their heads: "Yep. Love those US sites.
> Much more advanced. Clean, simple design. Not cluttered. Guess those Chinese
> guys will figure that out sooner or later."
>
> What's fascinating is that my Chinese friends have a very different take on
> the US sites: "They look skimpy, and empty. Where's all the content?? The
> home page is just navigation."
>
> After talking about this issue with many friends, it appears that Chinese
> and American (I won't say "Western" since I don't know much about Europeans)
> look at/read websites in very different ways. [To forestall critics, when I
> say "Americans" I mean native English speakers and readers who live in
> America, even though there are obviously many Americans who don't speak
> English natively].
>
> While it's clear that both peoples "scan," and then only sometimes "read",
> the way they scan is very different. Chinese people strongly prefer a
> density that is far beyond what most Americans can tolerate. In addition,
> Chinese people seem to be scanning for keywords (or more precisely
> "key-characters"), while Americans like to read "headlines" (aka short pithy
> phrases) and look at arresting photos.
>
> So here's my question: "Do Chinese online users and American online users
> scan/read web pages differently? if so, why? What does that mean for online
> business?"
>
> It turns out that no one seems to know the answer. I asked Jakob Nielsen<http://www.useit.com/>,
> the famous web usability expert, if he knew of any research on this topic.
> His simple answer: "No." He suggested I attend his upcoming usability
> workshop, which looks cool but is (a) beyond my price point and (b)
> potentially not relevant for the Chinese market (which is the whole point of
> this post).
>
> I can't find anyone, anywhere, who is researching this question. If you
> know someone, please let me know.
>
> I would LOVE to have someone do real research into this issue, using the
> latest eye-tracking technology. I might even have (gasp!) a shoestring
> budget to fund this. I've approached a friend at the Chinese Central Arts
> University, but they don't have the technology. Any takers??
>
> In the meantime, some of my own thoughts on this issue.
>
> First, I decided to compare newspaper front pages in China and the US. i
> figured that this comparison would yield the same enormous differences in
> information density. I remembered that Chinese newspapers from years ago
> were really dense visually. Much to my surprise, though, there are no longer
> vast differences between the layout and visual density of the top Beijing
> newspapers and English-language newspapers in New York.
>
> I found this fascinating. Why are the designs of the front pages of the
> major daily newspapers converging, while the website home pages are not?
> Does this mean that Chinese newspapers are more, or less, in touch with how
> their readers want to read?
>
> Then I started to think about what might explain the differences online,
> since they seem to exist only there. Said another way, are there unique
> "online" circumstances in China that might be influencing home page design?
>
> I think the answer is yes.
>
> In the US, online advertising is (mostly) sold by "page view". For example,
> an advertiser buys a certain amount of page views over time. In China, most
> online advertising is still sold by time-period, as in "buy an ad on the
> home page for one month."
>
> As I thought it through, I realized that these different pricing
> methodologies created different incentives. In the US, you want "more page
> views per visit", because that's how you create advertising inventory. In
> China, you create more advertising inventory by making your home page
> longer.
>
> Is this the explanation?? If so, does this mean that when (if?) China moves
> to a per-impression model, home pages will get shorter and less dense? Or
> has the online audience in China become accustomed to super-high density? If
> so, then how come newspapers are no longer as dense as they were?
>
> By now I hope you're starting to find these questions as interesting as I
> find them. I'd love to hear what you think!
>
> *Tags:* Chinese internet explained<http://www.melcherruwart.com/category/chinese-internet-explained/>
> 13 responses so far ↓
>
>    -
>
>    1<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-142>
>    *John <http://www.sinosplice.com/life/> *// May 26, 2008 at 7:53 pm
>
>    It is an interesting question. You're right that you aren't the first
>    to notice this, but given the keywords involved, it's a bit problematic to
>    search for the topic. Here are a few other commentaries:
>
>    http://www.churbuck.com/wordpress/?p=540
>
>    http://reganmian.net/blog/2007/09/30/website-design-in-china/
>
>    http://www.virtual-china.org/2006/03/30/aesthetics-of-abundance/
>    -
>
>    2<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-148>
>    *Florian Pihs <http://longmarch.chinalytics.com/> *// May 27, 2008 at
>    12:17 am
>
>    Thanks Melcher. Interesting post. I have asked myself the same
>    questions hundreds of times. While we see Chinese users engage with websites
>    differently that their western counterparts, basic web design principles
>    remain intact (but are largely ignored by most local sites) e.g. there is no
>    engagement after the 3rd screen, but pages are still 5-6 screens long. Blame
>    it on Sina or the lack of usability research.
>    -
>
>    3<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-155>
>    *Fons Tuinstra <http://www.chinaherald.net/> *// May 27, 2008 at 4:45
>    am
>
>    I think you are touching here on a key discussion: it is about what
>    your readers want, how to they absorb their information and what is the best
>    way to get a message across.
>    I do not have a clear answer, but I had some weeks ago an interesting
>    discussion with the chief-editor of the website of the largest broadsheet in
>    Poland:
>
>    http://witeam.blogspot.com/2008/04/observation-scrolling-no-longer-problem.html
>    They had done some research, eye-tracking stuff, and discovered that
>    some of the standard assumption on how people read a website had change over
>    the years. Scrolling (a nono in traditional webdesign) did not seem to be a
>    problem and people did not read anymore from the top-left corner downwards.
>    Our unproven assumption was then that this might be a generational
>    transition where an increasing number of readers did not have been
>    conditioned to read traditional newspapers anymore, but were open for
>    different ways of reading.
>    In China, where internet users are relative young and mostly not
>    trained (old) newspaper readers the old way of conditioning reading habits
>    might never have had a root to start with.
>    -
>
>    4<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-156>
>    *tmelcher *// May 27, 2008 at 5:58 am
>
>    Thanks very much for these great comments, and links to articles on the
>    same subject. I'd love to find more people interested in this subject!
>    -
>
>    5<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-157>
>    *Paul Denlinger <http://www.chinavortex.com/> *// May 27, 2008 at 8:51
>    am
>
>    Here is my guess.
>    I think that Sina, Sohu and Netease still have to accomodate many new
>    users, and they are not comfortable clicking through to new pages or
>    inputting Chinese into search boxes. Instead, they prefer to click directly
>    on text links of what they want to read. This forces as much content as
>    possible up to the top-level of the major websites.
>    >From an aesthetics point of view, it is not pretty. But it works in
>    China.
>    -
>
>    6<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-158>
>    *Kaiser Kuo <http://digitalwatch.ogilvy.com.cn/en> *// May 27, 2008 at
>    9:04 am
>
>    When I was editor-in-chief of a site here in China back in 1999, I
>    hired a Danish Web designer who built what I thought was a nice, clean,
>    elegant interface–which, of course, elicited confused "where's the content?"
>    from our Chinese staff. Eric Rosenblum, who was COO of the company, was
>    initially with me on the design issue, having a preference for clean. But
>    then a friend of his straightened him out. "Look at the Chinese retail
>    experience," Eric relayed to me. "Chinese shoppers want abundance, things
>    falling off the shells and piled up in the aisles. It makes it feel like
>    there's a sale on." He suggested that this experience preference translates
>    well onto the web as well. He may be right! Anyway, a heat mapping study
>    would be great. I have a hunch — totally unsupported, of course — that when
>    native readers of Chinese take in text, it's in a very different way than
>    English readers do, and there's simply more tolerance for what English
>    readers see as clutter.
>    -
>
>    7<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-159>
>    *Thijs *// May 27, 2008 at 9:36 am
>
>    I've looked into this only on the surface level; and if you look at
>    pageview time, the chinese websites have much higher values. I've also seen
>    some heatmapping done before and people have issues "finding" information,
>    which may contribute to the viewing time. Whether or not this leads to a
>    more "pleasing" experience, I would not be able to say. I think part of it
>    is just, what people are used to (habits) and not what would be the best
>    design.
>    -
>
>    8<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-162>
>    *Gemme <http://www.chinasnippets.com/> *// May 27, 2008 at 10:27 am
>
>    A user behavior study would indeed be great. Like many other commenters
>    I have struggled with the concept behind all the cluttered pages. Especially
>    in cases that I had to advice clients on this. Do we go Chinese or do we go
>    Western.
>
>    My take is that it will depend on the kind of website what will be the
>    best. Is it information, is it e-commerce, is it entertainment or else. My
>    hunch is it that it will also change over time.
>
>    One reason, like you mentioned, would be that the dated "advertising
>    per day" model (no incentive to change as a longer page can carry more ads)
>    will be replaced with more mature models that actually convert.
>    Another reason would be the evolvement of design, there's aready a lot
>    of the so called web 2.0 design happening.
>
>    I asked a company that actually does user behavior and eye tracking
>    testing but for now their Chinese office doesn' do this yet as it's very
>    expensive and clients are'nt yet at the stage that they see the benefit.
>
>    I only know of one Chinese eyetracking study but this once was focused
>    on the difference of behavior on Baidu and Google, see
>    http://www.enquiroresearch.com/chinese-search-engine-engagement.aspx .
>    Very intersting but unfortunately the Baidu and Google homepages have a
>    rather clean lay out so they may not help too much here.
>    -
>
>    9<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-166>
>    *Paul Denlinger <http://www.chinavortex.com/> *// May 27, 2008 at 12:29
>    pm
>
>    It would be interesting to study how eye-tracking behavior works
>    differently in east and west. If you look at magazine layouts in Taiwan,
>    Japan and Korea, you will see the same in your face cluttered layouts.
>    -
>
>    10<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-167>
>    *cerebus <http://aityt.blogspot.com/> *// May 27, 2008 at 12:40 pm
>
>    I've always wondered why Chinese websites always open links in a new
>    window (unless you specify tabs in your browser). My theory is that one
>    reason for the clutter is that there isn't a culture of consumer complaints
>    in China: no proper feedback mechanism. So although people might find it
>    annoying, they'll be hard-pressed to actually complain. It always seems to
>    me Chinese websites just aren't considerate, and want to take over your
>    whole screen and browser with floating flash ads and pop-ups. TV does the
>    same: it's not uncommon to see the same ad three or four times in a row. I
>    don't think arguments about Chinese consumer expectations hold water: more
>    likely Chinese advertiser expectations are to blame. The old story: you only
>    need to sell something once to every Chinese person and you'll be a
>    millionaire. Who cares if some people are annoyed? They're not going to
>    complain anyway.
>
>    (Please don't attack the obvious generalizations in this opinion.
>    Rather address the questions. I thank you in advance.)
>    -
>
>    11<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-173>
>    *tmelcher *// May 27, 2008 at 1:58 pm
>
>    Cerebus,
>
>    Thanks for the comment. Too bad your blog is blocked from Beijing!
>
>    I don't quite agree about the culture of no consumer complaints here. I
>    hear Chinese colleagues bitching about consumer experiences all the time,
>    and the BBSes are full of horror stories. And lately more companies seem to
>    be taking notice.
>
>    Based on talking with Chinese friends, it seems they really do prefer
>    highly-dense presentation. Other posters here have called it a "theory of
>    abundance", which is an interesting metaphor.
>
>    Bottom line is that I don't know. But I've seen too many foreign web
>    companies come to China and make mistakes from day one by assuming "good web
>    design" is global…
>
>    Thanks again!
>    -
>
>    12<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-174>
>    *Robert Ness <http://www.jobdou.com/> *// May 27, 2008 at 2:02 pm
>
>    I think you are right on the money with the advertising argument. It
>    all comes down to a sales person saying–"your ad gets on the front page of
>    Sina".
>
>    Let's not forget about the simple power of doing things the way people
>    have been doing it before you. Sina was one of the first big internet
>    successes in China, so most new websites aren't going to question the wisdom
>    of their UI design. And when your a media buyer who is accountable to a
>    boss, which is easier to say if things don't go well, "I placed the ad on
>    the front page of Sina!" or "I placed the ad on an archived page that gets
>    high page views from search engine users searching for relevant keywords!"
>
>    Let's avoid the trap of explaining things with culture instead of
>    explicit motivations.
>    -
>
>    13<http://www.melcherruwart.com/2008/05/26/why-do-most-chinese-sites-look-like-crap/#comment-178>
>    *tmelcher *// May 27, 2008 at 2:28 pm
>
>    Robert,
>
>    I love what you wrote: "avoid the trap of explaining things with
>    culture instead of explicit motivations". sounds like the inside of a
>    fortune cookie. Seriously. I've also thought that basic motivations (such as
>    makin' money) usually trump more-subtle ones…
>
>
> --
> 夏清然
> Xia Qingranqingran在zeuux.org
>
>
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-- 
Julien, GONG Min
clie.com.cn/blog

Google Talk: Julien.Gong在gmail.com
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Sina UC: 103327
Tel: +8610 6267 5933
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